By James Hibberd
December 05, 2019 at 02:12 PM EST

Don’t expect Kylo Ren’s journey in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker to follow the exact same trajectory as Anakin Skywalker.

When asked by EW if redemption was possible for the First Order’s Supreme Leader — or should even be considered given the magnitude of the character’s evil deeds — Adam Driver dismissed the idea.

“What does he have to be redeemed for?” Driver shot back.

Let’s see: Kylo killed his father, Han Solo. He hunted down the last of the Jedi and killed them off. Kylo basically killed Luke Skywalker by launching an attack that required the Jedi Master to drain his life force holding him off. He destroyed several entire planets with Starkiller Base. And just generally, Kylo’s been a rather humorless emo leader of a fascist movement.

But as an actor, Driver sees things more from his character’s perspective.

“[Kylo Ren] has a different identity, a different definition of what redemption is,” Driver says. “He’s already been redeemed in his story. I don’t think there is a thought of redemption. He doesn’t have an outside lens of the events, you know — you know what I mean? That’s more of an outsider’s view of his world.”

© 2019 Lucasfilm Ltd.

In the final Skywalker Saga film, Kylo’s journey leads him to an epic clash with Rey (Daisy Ridley) on the ruins of the second Death Star, as well as seemingly teaming up with the Jedi-in-training for some other purpose.

Abrams sees the duo as “two sides of the same coin,” noting, “even when they’re not together they still haunt each other in a way — they know they are each other’s unresolved business.”

For his part, Driver rejects any labels for the Rey-Kylo relationship. “I don’t think it’s all one thing,” he says. “Part of the fun of playing it is the boundaries of it keep changing. At times it’s more intimate, sometimes less intimate. Sometimes it’s codependent. And then it’s, obviously, adversarial.”

The Rise of Skywalker opens Dec. 20.

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